Prompt:
I just felt like giving my two cents on this topic.
Many greater men than I have commented on this issue, but I wanted go over different source materials and then summarize all this into simple laymen statements that on what I believe should be our biblical response.
What Prompted me to write out my thoughts on this topic. Wretched Radio yesterday talked a bit about the division on the issue. Mr. Mr. Todd the host, a man I truly respect(in a sense I give him some of the credit as one of the people God used to show me I was a false convert), was talking about the issue and it basically soundly like that it was an issue over methodology. Surprisingly if that is the case what he meant to say, I disagree with him. For me that is quite shocking, I rarely ever disagree with him [every since I've been a Christian and listened to the show] we've seen just about everything right on the dot. So today I will have to respectfully disagree.
My Take:
Well before we get into this lets see what this is all about.
Mark Driscoll is a well known pastor that is part of the wave of new conservative preachers that have decided that they must have smutty talk in order to be relevant and communicate with the modern masses. Big names like Piper and Mahaney support him by being a mentor of some sort. He has nick names like Mark the cussing pastor, and so on.
He has recently done it again with a sermon where he twists scripture [Songs of Solomon] to 'biblicaly' advocates/supports [I would argue inappropriate] sexual acts a with silly low joking additude. It has been dubbed by many as the "Rape of Solomon's Song" I don't even want to discuss what was said and will just post a link [ https://docs.google.com/Doc?docid=dg4fc37g_6fjdd38c8&hl=en ] but for those who don't want to see all of it, I'll give one example. He tells wives that "Jesus Christ commands you" to perform oral sex. (Don't highlight light the text/blank in front if you are sensitive)
Don't even get me started on sex. It is one of the most beautiful things God has given us in context of a married couple who are both willing. This gets into the issue that even if you don't want to "perform oral sex" as a wife you have to cause you are 'commanded' by Jesus to so. I may not be the sharpest knife in the cupboard nor am I married but role of a godly husband is not to command/lead the household for his own pleasures but to lead it with his wife's best intentions in mind. The wife and kids submitt... but it aint all fun and games cause as the man you are the one that needs to give up your own needs/goals for theirs. Your ministry becomes them.
This isn't just a methodology issue. In the past I have heard many people use that argument on me when I explain why we must use the law when preaching the gospel and that we ought to not support methods that skim over or skip entirely the mention of sin and law before the good news. I see a parallel here, because I don't think the split over the issue is over methodology but what our response over sin needs to be sin.
Wait a second there... Did you just accuse Mark Driscoll of sinning in what he is doing?
Well bluntly answered. Yes, and here is why.
I think this quote I saved from a while ago gives some very good insight to the situation. A quote from 2006 off from a blog comment: [don't remember the author]
"When Driscol uses crass language and coarse language and coarse jesting to engage the culture he is being pragmatic–doing what “works” as opposed to doing what is holy…falling into a thought process involving “the end justifies the means” type of approach. This is very much a friendship with the world mentality… Christ was very much unlike the world, his language was never crass, and He did not emulate the people He reached He only reached out to them and called them to repentance and faith. Dining with tax collectors is not acting like tax collectors. The best of intentions by men like Driscol cannot justify behavior that does not exalt Christ."
The last sentence is the key point that guides where this post is going.
Behavior that does not exalt Christ. Those are the key words. It isn't hard to argue that his behaviour is dishonoring to God. It shows a low view of holiness and very little fear of His holy love for His own name.
What do I mean by all this. When we call ourselves Christians, we are declaring ourselves as representitives of Christ in this fallen world. Therefore each and our actions say something about God. The thing that we say is either glorifying and true to his nature or dishonoring and blasphemous to His name. (IE: When I, as a Christian, go to a very gruesome violent fornication filled movie. I tell to everyone who knows me as a profession Christian that Christ is fine with those things in the movie. Same goes for cussing. That is dishonoring at the least and probably blasphemous to His holy name.[Before someone yells legalisit, This isn't legalism. If I said you had to not watch movies and to not cuss to be a Christian, then that would be legalism. What I suggested was a wise fear of the Lord and a high view of His holiness.])
Here is a sermon snipit by John Piper.
"What makes sin sin is not first that it hurts people, but that it blasphemes God. This is the ultimate evil and the ultimate outrage in the universe.
The glory of God is not honored.
The holiness of God is not reverenced.
The greatness of God is not admired.
The power of God is not praised.
The truth of God is not sought.
The wisdom of God is not esteemed.
The beauty of God is not treasured.
The goodness of God is not savored.
...
The wrath of God is not feared."
I would that by cussing, twisting scripture, and speaking in a low manner, all the while you are suppose to be above reproach, temperate, self-controlled, respectable is being a bad witness to Christ's name.
Please understand that I am not point out a spec in his eye while having a log in my own. I am preaching this to myself as much as to anyone. This is personally one of the sins I find myself struggling with still. I hate how I still often find myself laughing at jokes I now as a Christian should not laugh at. I say stupid things that dishonor Jesus' name. I know how wretched and disgusting I am. And how underserving I am to have Christ's righteousness declaredas mine and that all the horrid sins I commit taken by Him upon the cross. I also see the damage my bad witness has to those I preach to.
I find myself living out 1 Corinthians 9: 27
"I pummel my body and make it a slave lest after preaching to others I myself should be disqualified."
Even if I preach truth to them, I insult the truth when I live in manner that doesn't honor God.
The problem here is I've been called out in the past and now know my sin and hate it.
Mark doesn't seem to see the problem. It isn't that he hasn't been called out, he has by godly men like MacArthur. [http://www.shepherdsfellowship.org/pulpit/Posts.aspx?ID=4174], received letters from Phil Johnson [http://5ptsalt.com/2009/05/01/mark-driscoll-responds-to-phil-johnson/] Where all he did was do a little dance around Phil Johnson's letter. Showing "that Mark is adept at skirting the issues, particularly the language/behavior issues"
Mark's response was simply the overused claim we can't be shooting at each other so much, we have to just preach Jesus.
Yes we preach Jesus. But we do it in a way that also truthfully preaches Him!
The ends never justifies the means. We must have both pleasing means and ends.
One must also wonder whether the way he talks causes any of our brothers to stumble.
If I remember correctly the numbers are that 60% of evangelical men admit to having a problem with pornography. That's just the ones that admit it. I can't help but think how hard it is for someone with a really wretched sexual past to not be tempted to fall back into it when listening to Mark flippantly talk about how wives ought to replace the alarm clock with a oral sex.
My Response:
Summary
Its about whether we are shaming Jesus/God. Marks language and behavior isn't honoring to God. And to quote Piper's 'The Greatest Thing in the World' sermon, sin is bad because"The holiness of God is not reverenced" So I would say Mark here is in the midst of a sin. Though some may argue that the sin it isn't that big, may I remind you that the position of teacher calls for a high standard (Tim 3). So as brothers in Christ, what we are to faithfully call each other out. The problem is that after being called out by Pastor Johnson and MacArthur, he hasn't really acknowledge or humbled himself in this issue yet. MacArthur has asked Pastor Piper and Mahaney to join in the loving but stern rebuke.
Its like a large scale version of Church discipline(or accountability) to keep teachers accountable, something modern evangelicalism has lacked for too long. To get more/other brothers to come in and confront would be the next step. The squabbling about divide I believe is from the lack of further confronting by Piper and Company so far[it takes a long to confront someone you are close to, possible reason]. They(people who want to split fellowship with Driscoll) are getting impatient and trying to do it themselves, though some take it too far to quick.
I do totally agree with Todd on this. "We have to be praying like nobody's business." for pastor Piper and Mahaney to do what is biblical, full of wisdom, love, and sterness.
Word has it, something is going down soon.
http://twitter.com/PiperTravel/status/1766111559
And to pray for Mark that he matures and submits himself to a greater fear over God's holiness. Because as fallen creatures under the grace of a holy God. Our view of God's holiness can never be high enough to match His infinite worth and holiness.
as the proverb says
"Better is open rebuke than hidden love." [Proverbs 27:5]
Plus even if this someone ends up in some division that causes our condition to go from 6/10 to 10/10 in the scales of bad health. If it was because of people patientally pointed out sin. I say let it be.
I rather faithfully proclaim the truth than to not do it because I worry about dividing and "'weakening" the church. If anything I personally believe if this goes well it will set precedent a form of church disciple/accountability for teachers. (something we have ignored so long, we need something that keeps evangelicals accountability and calls them out. Just look around, most of us don't even say anyone is wrong unless it happened over a decade ago. This should hopefully result in Mark maturing and committing to a higher standard of holiness.
Well to conclude, I will say I could be completely wrong on how I see this. I’m just a dim. But even as a dim and the chief of sinners, I know something is wrong when Mark,, in his “rape of Solomon’s song” sermons, tells wives that “Jesus Christ commands you” to perform oral sex." Don’t really know how to respond to that… any amount of discernment tells me something is wrong. And if a split occurs because we called out sin, I say let it be. I rather be faithful on calling out sin and holding on to a high view of God’s Holiness than to give it up for the sake of unity.
